Thursday, August 17, 2017

Stop inviting the Holy Spirit to your church

Discernment-related articles are often controversial. After all, a discerning person will call some things "bad" that others might call "good" -- and vice-versa. These articles also tend to attract more readers due to the controversial nature of the content.

So, if you're new to the website: You are welcome here. Come flood this place and fill the atmosphere.

Whoops, I got ahead of myself.

There is a lot to say on the subject of inviting the Holy Spirit into a church service. I will do my best to keep my thoughts succinct and to the point. In order to lay a bit of a foundation for this conversation, though, it would be helpful for you to check out the video below.

If you want to get to the point, you can jump to the 5:14 mark and watch for a couple of minutes. If you'd like to start at the beginning or skip the whole thing, that works too.



If you've been attending church semi-regularly over the last couple of years, you may have noticed a change in the verbiage used by those who lead music (often called "worship leaders") when they pray. Due to songs like the one above and the popularization of bands like Jesus Culture, Hillsong, Bethel, and the like, some of those up front are now telling the Spirit that He is invited to join the believers in the service.

It's an interesting phenomenon. It's also a phenomenon that should stop.

Here are my main concerns about Christians inviting the Holy Spirit into a church service.

It's not biblical.
In Scripture, no person ever prays to the Holy Spirit. Bible readers find many examples of people praying, along with imperatives and instructions concerning prayer; however, never is there found any evidence that praying to the Spirit is good and right.

Jesus got specific when He taught on prayer. He instructed that His disciples pray to the Father (Matthew 6:7-9, 7:11) and to pray in His name (John 16:23-28). Never did Jesus teach that people should pray to the Holy Spirit.

Good Trinitarian theology may lead someone to respond with a statement like, "But the Holy Spirit is God and we should speak to Him because He hears us."

Although that is good Trinitarian theology, it is not complete Trinitarian theology. What does the Bible say?

Though it is true that the Holy Spirit is God -- He is eternal, He hears us, He is a Person -- it is also true that He maintains a specific role within the Godhead. The Savior said that the Spirit's role is to glorify Jesus (John 16:14). In 1 Corinthians 2, Paul explains how the Holy Spirit is the One who teaches believers the word of God, yet he never says that they should pray to Him. In 1 Peter 1:21 it says that the Spirit moved men along as they wrote Scripture, yet those Scripture-writers never instructed that people pray to the Spirit.

Instead of speaking to Him, Christians are told to walk in step with Him (Galatians 5:25) and to not quench Him (1 Thessalonians 5:19).

Therefore, based on that short study, it would be biblically unwarranted for a person leading a congregation to ask the Spirit anything in their behalf. This is not to say that it's sinful to pray to Him -- it's just not biblical.

Still, one could make the argument from silence: Just because Scripture doesn't say we should, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't. This form of logic is never a good foundation for any practice that a person implements in his/her life; nevertheless, here are a couple of more concerns about inviting the Spirit into a church service.

It's not logical.
Good theology is derived from the Bible, and the Bible says that once a person believes in the gospel he/she is sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30). The Spirit indwells that the believer (1 Corinthians 6:19) and the Spirit has been poured out upon all true Christians (Romans 5:5, Titus 3:4-6).

Therefore, inviting the Holy Spirit into a place where He already exists is illogical.

Think about it. On a Sunday morning, churches across the globe are filled with people who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (the church is God's body, His people). This means when the people come together, the Holy Spirit is filling the building through the people He indwells.

Then a person stands up front on the stage and asks Him to show up.

What does this imply? At a minimum, it's just bad theology.

This leads to the important theological difference between indwelling and filling. After all, if every Christian is indwelt by the Spirit, why does Paul say that they should "be filled"?

This instruction was given not to imply that Christians may become un-indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but to assert that individual Christians need to re-subject themselves to His authority. Being filled with the Spirit (as opposed to alcohol) means to be under His control. As He works in the Christian to bring about godliness, the believer is called to yield to Him.

Now taking the mind back to the phrase in question, it's helpful to dwell on the word invite. Often, church leaders will "invite" the Spirit into a church service, as opposed to asking or summoning. Here's what the dictionary says of the word's definition: "To request the presence or participation of."

Someone can only request the presence or participation of another if he/she is in a position of authority or ownership. The invitee is always in subjection to the invitation-giver. After all, if the invitation hasn't been extended, the invitee would not have had opportunity to participate.

When man is the one inviting God to do something, he is putting himself in a position of authority and action. God is in subjection and passive. Not good.

In the New American Standard Bible, there are 25 instances that the Greek word kaleo (or a variation thereof) is translated into invite (or a variation thereof). All 25 occurrences are in the context of a person in a position of ownership or authority inviting those who would otherwise be left out.

When considering God's people and His Spirit, this phraseology just doesn't make sense. People are God's people because of His Spirit. The church exists because of the Spirit's work within them. He does not need to be invited. He is already there. Inviting the Spirit just doesn't make sense.

And even still, if all of that doesn't convince you, consider this.

It's mystical.
When I was a new believer I visited the local Christian bookstore in my hometown. I don't remember what I was buying that day but I told the lady at the counter what church I attended. She told me what church she attended. I then asked her what that church was all about and I'll never forget her response.

"We're [a little more] Spirit-filled," she said. I can't remember if she actually said "a little more" or if my memory added that in just to soften the blow.

I instinctively thought to myself, "And my church isn't?!"

But this tends to be the m.o. for charismatic churches: They place too much attention on the person of the Holy Spirit. I say "too much," because they go beyond His biblical role and they glorify His Personhood in a way that Scripture doesn't instruct. His job is to glorify the Son, remember?

The inviting of the Spirit into a church is unequivocally associated with the charismatic movement. At the heart of their plea is often a desire for a mystical experience, one that will send waves of people into another spiritual dimension of worship. They're asking for Pentecost + some.

Did you notice in the video above (if you started at 5:14) that the woman starts babbling incoherently? Did you notice all of the people raising hands (hopefully they're holy) and moving as though they've been overcome by a force? Did you notice that the one song goes on for 12 minutes? Okay, that's just a pet peeve.

When the Spirit is invited into the church service of a charismatic congregation, the expectation is that there would be a supernatural experience. The desire isn't for that of a life of progressive sanctification or for good conversations that morning full of wisdom or for humble attitudes -- all of which are truly supernatural. Instead, the desire is for an emotionally moving and jittery sensation often described as worship (that's a misnomer).

Inviting the Spirit needs to stop. More Bible reading needs to start. That's where we'll hear Him speak to us.

115 comments:

  1. So what are you expecting people to do? In the Bible there is no Teaching concerning how to handle or dealing with the Holy Spirit. Should we stop saying '' Holy Spirit you are welcome'' Holy spirit I invite you''? What do you understand about the free will? Nor God the Father, Nor
    The Lord Jesus neither the Holy Spirit can come closer to us if they are not invited. Do you agree with that?

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    1. There is all sorts of teaching in the Bible about the Holy Spirit, who He is, and how to relate to Him. Do your studying.

      And if you are born again, the Holy Spirit is already within you. Whether you subject, surrender or allow Him to guide you is another matter.

      The author explains this to some extent.

      Read the article fully then study the Word.

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    2. I personally feel the Holy Spirit inside Mr but only when I keep my mouth shut long enough to hear and feel the holy spirit. Also I thought we all received the holy spirit after we pray for forgiveness, & acknowlege Jesus as our savior? Why would one need to ask for something God gives us once we repent?

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    3. Strongly recommend/agreed

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    4. Yes, the Holy Spirit is in a believer but that doesn't mean the believer is listening or obeying the Spirit. The idea of inviting is not to imply the believer doesn't have the Holy Spirit but that he wants a greater union, a deeper surrender, than he currently experiences. And that I vitamin does not put him in authority above God, it is the exercise of the gift God gave him (free will) to express a greater desire for God. I would argue that using your free will for other purposes is how one tries to be in authority over God (his own master).

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    5. "I vitamin" was meant to be one invites" in the previous comment.

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  2. The true test comes outside of the service...away from the music, the mood, the swaying and the warm fuzzies. God (who is Spirit) goes where, when and how he wishes. He fills those who seek and Him and desire to live for Him...those who replace His will for theirs. In the Scriptures being filled with His Spirit is connected to wisdom (Exodus 31:3, Deut 34:9) the speaking of other languages (languages...not babble)...speaking the word of God boldly (Acts 4:31)...godly living (Eph 5:18.) Emotional swooning and babbling can be done in a certain created environment occupied by those who are who seek to create that atmosphere. It "feels" spiritual. The true Spirit led, Spirit filled person is one who is obedient and seeks a God honoring life, for that is the one whom the Holy Spirit seeks to fill.

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  3. ...come fill this place and fill the atmosphere??? Isn't Satan the prince of the powers of the air??? Hello?? I caught this on the radio when I first heard this......very scary!! People are swallowing it hook, line and sinker

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    1. I can't think of a better place for the Spirit of God to be at then where Satan is at. Since Satan and the prince of powers are in the air....come Holy Spirit and fill the atmosphere!

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    2. Yes. I think people are not understanding the dynamics of a Christian life. This song acknowledges that, even though we have the Holy Spirit, we still choose to sin and hold onto our "baggage". And so the atmosphere in a church is filled not only with what God brings into it, but what we bring into it. The song is a surrender to God, asking him to work, to change hearts...so that the "atmosphere" contains less of us and more of him.

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    3. Amen! Reading scripture in all its context is vital!!

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    4. I appreciate the one that wrote this article. We do need to be careful how we think and say. I am charismatic, but try hard to be balanced with the Word. The Holy Spirit does fill the atmosphere somewhat. When I was driving to church, I was filled with depression, but as soon as I walked in through the doors of my church, the depression went away. I was in awe. I did not not make it go away, the Spirit did. So I thanked the Holy Spirit for His comfort for He is our comforter and teacher and reminds us the scriptures, because he is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. He does this in harmony with the Father and the Son. He empowers us to do the Father's will. One time, I was so overfilled with his love to the point of euphora which lasted about a month. I was more loving and forgiving toward others and I wanted to be in the Word eating like bread for hours a day. When that feeling of "euphoria" went away, I tried to get it back. But I learned on the way, that He gave me that for a purpose. He used it to heal me from my live-long rejection as foster kid and healed me from co-dependency. I learned that I should get my feeding from the Word, believe it and walk it out in Faith and not seek an "experience". When I do experience "feelings", I look at it as a good gift from God, but I know now that "walking in faith" will follow when those special feelings are not there. When I "feel" the love for others, I sense the Spirit testifying with my spirit that I am a child of God. But I also know that I will have to CHOOSE to love without the feelings. So as I walk day to day in my journey I will have a combination of lovely feelings that compels me and choosing to do without feelings which is walking in faith. Walking in faith builds character and perseverance. I was once against charamatics and pentecostal because they go to an extreme and not be in balance until one day, I felt powerless in my sin that I started to seek if there is "more". I am so thankful that I have found a church that is teaching the Gifts of the Spirit along with being strong in the Word of God. They used to be Reformed, now they considered themselves to be Full Gospel. Yes, we have the Holy Spirit reside in us when we become born again. But I also believe He empowers us "more" as we surrender "more" to His will which is the Will of the Father. So when some people want "more", I think this is what they meant when they "invite", but not all of them, for some of them who are immature and ignorant want an experience. We might not agree with their theology and the words that they are using, but we need to look at the intents of their hearts like God does. We need to help them by praying for them and if you can, reach out to them, with gentleness as you express the truth from the Word of God. YOU did that for me, and I appreciate the "iron that sharpeneth iron." I will no longer "invite" but thank Him for being within us already, but still ask for His help to empower me more and more each day to be all I can be to glorify the Father and His Son. I talk to the Father and Jesus all the time, but when I feel or see the Spirit move, I talk to Him, thanking Him for glorifying the Father and the Son. I just want to give you my perspective as a charismatic/pentecostal believer that not all churches are the same. My church seek the Word first and any experiences we have matches with the Word.

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  4. when I watch this all I can see is emotionalism and a GOD SHOW...no teaching through song or verbal Biblical instruction......so SAD, but then again, maybe some will wake up and see that this is wrong

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    1. It is important that one does not get their theological and Bible teaching from songs, but from the Holy Bible. Many contemporary Christian songs are mystic with no lasting, solid Christlike impact on their lives.

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  5. Thank you for giving words we can communicate to our children and adult children, brother Jeremy this glorifies God in so many ways I wrote it out for my own, again thank you. D

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  6. Thank you. This song has been suggested for worship at my church and I had immediate concerns almost entirely for the same reasons you state. I'd guessed it came from Bethel and sure enough it did.

    It is a common thing these days to hear people invite the spirit to fill a rpom, which I agree makes no sense and is more mystical than Biblical.

    Aside from that, this is NOT a worship song full stop. It is a prayer maybe, but it doesn't seek to glorify God. In fact, as you point out, it suggests the spirit is under subjection.

    Oh, and aside from that, it comes from one of the worst new age churches around. Visit www.churchunitydeception.com to find out why this is not happening accidentally.

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  7. Just to expand on my last comment, how right you are also about the trend for repetition in somgs from Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation etc. It is turning worship into something more akin to meditation, mantras or the call and respond prayers of Catholicism and Anglicanism. This is abput putting people into a trance-like state where I fear they are more open to letting things in, much like in hypnosis.

    I have to admit that the first time I heard Hillsong do something similar with I Surrender I was carried away with the emotion, but that's basically the trick.

    And another issue is, do the congregation really believe what they are repeating? As I said, the modern protestant church seems to be returning to a very modern looking version of Catholicism where you chant stuff without thinking and where 'Christians' believe they go to church with no need or expectation of a change in their lives. This is fake Christianity.

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    1. And I suppose we'd better wrap King David, amongst others, over the knuckles for repeating phrases such as 'Give thanks to the Lord' in the Psalms? Lol!

      What a load of self-righteous nonsense.

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    2. Give thanks to the Lord. Not the Holy spirit. Do your study.

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    3. Such a nasty attitude. The Word also teaches to correct others IN LOVE. You are hardly the vessel to lead anyone, if you take such a condescending approach to providing counsel. You are better off just saying nothing at all. Season your words with salt.

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    4. I agree, this councel is Harsh. And it's only going to turn people away.... Not all Christian music is corrupt. Because I agree that songs that worship and glorify God are best. Maybe for some of you, there has not been that encounter with the presence of God, thru praise and worship music.and thats thru joly spirit!.

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  8. I agree with the writer. I always wondered when tht Holy Spirit is in me, why do i invite Him every week? I can submit to His authority every day.

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    1. A lot of people have a misunderstanding of the Holy Spirit. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior, the Holy Spirit is then given to that person. It is our responsible to use the Holy Spirit like in the book of Acts. The whole purpose of inviting the Holy Spirit is for us to allow the Holy Spirit to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit from within us and then through us. Gifts of the Holy Spirit: 1. Word of Wisdom 2. Word of Knowledge 3. Faith 4. Healings 5. Miracles 6. Prophecies 7. Speaking in tongues 8. Interpretation of tongues 9. Discerning of Spirits which are found in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. I hope this clears up the confusion. The Holy Spirit is in you - that is correct. We should be inviting Him daily, meaning we should be operating in the gifts on a daily basis.

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    2. If you think you have the authority to "use" God Himself or "allow" Him to do or not do anything, then you are burdened by foolishness and folly. The implication of your comment, whether you intend it or not, is that the Holy Spirit is something less than God while being closely associated with God. A belief which your own username explicitly contradicts. Your comment is about as purely wrong a thing as I have seen on the internet in a while. Excepting your first sentence, a lot of people do misunderstand the Holy Spirit. You appear to be one of them.

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    3. denisegp, the Apostle Paul admonished Timothy to "stir up the gift that was given to him through the laying of hands of the presbytery." In Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 12-14, the Apostle Paul talks about the "spirits of the prophets being subject to the prophets." Therefore, while we should not ever wish to control God, nevertheless scripture gives us many examples where we can yield to the presence of the Holy Spirit, so we do have actions to perform in our walk with Jesus. In fact, there is a scripture in the Bible that says "concerning the work of my hands, command ye me." We have to understand everything in context on all sides of an issue.

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    4. When inviting the Holy Spirit to come, or fill, or work, etc, its an open declaration that I am submitting my will to His. I see so many "weak" Christians because while having an indwelling of the Spirit they deny the power thereof. Instead of "here I am, use me," or, "I'm submitting my will to Yours," they would rather be like, "nah, I'm good."

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    5. Biblical wisdom Jerry...thank you. Many are missing out on the empowerment and the "filling" that is offered to us through the gifts of the Holy Spirit..... Many weak Christians because we are not receiving all that's been given us an offered.

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  9. They call on Holy Spirit but surely it cannot be Holy Spirit who turns up, it's out of character for Holy Spirit. The scary question to ask is what is this spirit that comes upon such invitation?

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    1. Didn't Jesus say "if you ask for a fish, he would not give you a stone"? Yes, in fact, he did say that. No danger of a sincere person seeking the true God in the right way getting a counterfeit. That is a man-made supposition not in line with scripture.

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  10. You could have left your commendations out of it

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  11. My church started singing this song about two months ago and since then the song has been sung every single week. The words of the chorus caught my attention as they contain something false: "Holy Spirit You are welcome here
    Come flood this place and fill the atmosphere". The Holy Spirit is God. He is a member of the Trinity. Psalm 139 makes it clear that He is omnipresent. I don't see the need to invite Him as 1) the whole universe belongs to Him and He is everywhere in it 2) He is already made manifest in me a believer. So, every time the song is sung, instead of singing the words above, I sing: "Ho-ly Spi-rit you're alrea-dy here.... You're om-ni-pre-sent as the Fa-ther is....". Works for me.

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    1. If that makes you feel better to sing it that way, no problem, but what did Luke mean when he said?:

      Luke 5:17 And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judæa, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them.

      And furthermore, what can we learn about God's presence from the scripture that states even Jesus was not able to perform miracles in certain cities because of the people's unbelief?

      So, could it be that even though God is omnipresent through his Holy Spirit, what happens for our healing in a service or our daily lives depends on our faith and recognition of his presence? Why do we ask God to bless us if he is already there to bless us? Get my point? It's what we as humans need to do - to express ourselves to the ONE God and the Bible says "God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

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    2. Jerry Boor, EXACTLY! Thank you.

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    3. Jerry. It simply means that God CHOSE to heal people that day. Are you implying that on other days Jesus lacked the power to do something?
      And only once, in mark, does the Bible say Jesus “could not” do miracles because of a towns unbelief. It was his home town which, to fulfill prophecy, they did not believe. In the other gospels the exactly same story is told and it says Jesus “did not” do many miracles there. So the best understanding of the phrase “could not” is that it would not be right for Him to do so, since they had no faith. Not that he was incapable or prevented. Notice something amazing in Matthew‬ ‭11:20‬ “Then he began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent.” He denounces the town that would have had the most faith, where most of the miracles were performed. And he healed 9 lepers and a blind man who had no faith at all. May all this sink in.
      ‭‭

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  12. This caught my attention for the first time today when on invitation to a Lutheran Church where the associate pastor in prayer before the congregation invited the Holy Spirit to come.....I thought "Wait a minute, I am indwelled with the Holy Spirit..."

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  13. Stuck theologians crucified Christ the Son, and they will raise their heads everytime his spirit is invited. I have nothing but a scathing rebuke for you guys. God is Spirit, and provided we walk to honour him and walk in the spirit there is nothing wrong with inviting his presence, the Holy Spirit and seeking to please the Father through him. We have received the spirit of adoption by which we cry out ABBA Father. The Spirit of God is also the Father spirit since God is one, Jesus by the way is called the everlasting father, he still refers to the Father as greater than I because the trinity is and will always remain a mystery. The Bethel bashing is uncalled for, I agree that we may have been excessive at times for which I make an apology as with the angel feathers. Overall I found the love of the Bethel teams we have received here in New Zealand indescribably good. Mature believers and filled and overflowing with the spirit. There have only been very few occasions where some people became manifestation focused. Actually the bhahavat gita even teaches us to focus on God while manifesting his presence e.g. with shaking etc. I have been in the new age prior to being a believer myself, happily kept my heart back from it but still under a curse at the time. Reviewing these scenes with the Lord subsequently he simply stated I had been under the influence of a false god. In his voice there was no sense of holding these things against me. Glad to be with him now, it is still his voice that guides me. I do have a divine hatred for idols as a result of this. I do agree that we can operate by faith that God is with us when we come together in his name, inviting the holy spirit I think makes it easier for some people to express their faith. I do recall inviting the holy spirit into my cousins house, he was enjoying GOD'S PRESENCE since. God specifically rebukes the Isrealites for limiting the Holy One of Israel.

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    1. I find it strang that you don't find anything wrong with a church that uses trickery of feathers falling and gold glitter coming from the HVAC vents. Also where in the Bible did Jesus heal someone and then they lost their healing? We are not little gods and we are not equal with Jesus. These are all teachings and deception of the Bethel Church and others.
      I pray that the Holy Spirit opens yours eyes to this deception through the Bible.

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    2. Much error here. Jesus is never called the father. Everything said here is false.

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  14. In some services at our church I sit closer to the front. Many of the songs that are sung are Hillsong or Jesus Culture. I noticed when I sit to the front I am drawn into the songs and so are those around me. If I sit to the back of the church I notice a different atmosphere and I look at the screens and think "what are we singing?"
    I just recently brought up the songs of Jesus Culture not being right to the Worship leader because of the teachings of Bethel church. I haven't gotten a response yet.
    Thankfully the Holy Spirit has led me to question this type of music.

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  15. God has given us the grace to approach the throne of grace, anytime with boldness!

    We do not have to invite God in any of our meetings, because Jesus Christ said, where two or three are gathered in my name, He will be present.

    People who are far away from the Lord, may have to invite the lost Presence of God by way of true repentance.

    But the people of God already have the Holy Spirit in them. We never extend invitation to those who are already present for the occasion.

    God is already present in the gathering, and so we who are His children by His grace, must thank God for the mercy shown unto us through the death of our Savior, Lord Jesus Christ.

    Glory is given to God for the eternal life given to us through Jesus Christ.

    The Holy Spirit primarily spreads the love of God into our hearts, exalts Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of those who believe in Him.


    When the Holy Spirit Himself draws our attention to Jesus Christ and not Himself, then we are resisting the Holy Spirit by in inviting Him in our gathering, when He is trying to enable us to focus on our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

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  16. Thank you so much I have learnt a lot even though the comments

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  17. Can you recommend any decent, biblically faithful songs about the Holy Spirit?

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  18. I googled this topic because we had an out of town pastor/singer/performer pop in at a bible study last night that we usually open with worship which he led because the guy can sing but anyway he went on about the importance of inviting in the Holy Spirit and right away my spirit threw up red flags for the exact reasons you pointed out... It felt more like a sayonce then worship time... well written thank you

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  19. powerful. thank you. I am a pastor who is in the midst of a series on the essence of worship, and today I spoke about music and songs and unbiblical songs that we sing. Thanks for the article.

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  20. I have been seeking the Lord‘s wisdom today on more understanding of the Trinity and I came across your message, I also believe the Bible is clear on the Holy Spirit’s role and I believe that the great common denominator in the trinity is perfect harmony. I have been seeking wisdom about this because my daughter has recently gone to revivals where people have pushed these kids back and they’ve fallen and the people are prophesying about their future and even though my daughter comes back somewhat glowing I still want to teach her the truth only, and since the Bible clearly states that there is no truth in a lie we have to be very cautious when we consider the teachings Our children are exposed to today, because Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Thank you so much sincerely Dana

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    1. Just said a prayer for you and your daughter. God bless you!

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  21. It's all three (the Godhead), all the time.

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  22. Stupid Americans and your brand of Christianity. Let me guess. You think Trump is holy too? Get a clue

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  23. When I received the holy spirit, I did not invite the holy spirit or pray to the holy spirit. I was simply asking for forgiveness from God. I was praying to God and this feeling of pure bliss came over me. I was shaking and crying and preachers surrounded me. I don’t remember what happened after that but my sister told me that one of the preachers and me were speaking in tongues. My sister was pretty scared because before that we never saw anyone do what I did or knew what it meant.

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  24. I love to sing that song, each time I do Holy Spirit blankets me with His tangible presence. It's expressing your heart to Him. He is no less God than the Father, for He proceeds out from the Father, and no less God than Jesus and He should be honored. He goes where He is honored. Yes we have Him living within us, He is a Divine Person not a force, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with inviting Him in your space. He is my Best Friend, my Comforter, my Tutor, my Discipler, my Refuge, and so much more. His very presence is my Hiding Place from the enemy. He is glorious, wonderful, holy, righteous, true and just. He is honest, fair, POWERFUL yet gentle, kind and very loving. He is joyful, He is peace, He is good, He is faithful and He is the most self-controlled Person on the planet. I will continue to honor Him and invite Him everywhere I go and that includes each and every church I go to. Tongues and all the gifts of the Holy Spirit is for today and that includes being baptized by the Holy Spirit. God He does not change and neither does His gifts. We should be continuously filled by the Holy Spirit after we are baptized ty Him every day by standing in His presence and asking Him to fill us. I ask Him every day to fill me fresh and He fills me and saturates my heart in His very tangible love.

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  25. There are several points you are overlooking here. Jesus said that the fullness of the HS hadn't come until he left. So to set a precedence based on BEFORE acts Chapter 2 would be preposterous. Jesus sent his Spirit in a much different fullness. As a matter of fact he said unless he come there would be no Comforter. These people are not putting on a show, they are in the presence of the Comfortor receiving the Comfort of God's presence just as they requested. The original 12 were in the upper room waiting for the Holy Spirit. Waiting for the Lord to Return. Don't you think they didn't ASK? Heck yes they did. over and over. "Jesus you saidi you would send your Spirit. Please send Him. Come holy Spirit." As for infilling VS the oversflowing the scripture says to continue being filled with the Spirit. Timothy - Stir up the Gifts. "Ask and you will receive. Seek and you will find". As for Authority God grands us authority over everyplace we put our feet. It is our kingdom to rule with the help of the Holy Spirit. He grands Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists, Prophets and Apostles AUTHORITY in the church to govern the Church. That Authority certainly is from God himself and is enough to usher in the Holy Spirit to a situation - to heal, prophecy and manifest in all the gifts. God has seated us in heavenly places WITH Christ Jesus. If we dno't have authority to call on the Holy Spirit then how could we have "authority" to call on Christ? if only the greater invokes the lesser. That is nonesense. it is the HOLY SPIRIT in each of the believers that calls the Holy Spirit to come. Just as DEEP CRIES UNTO DEEP we can only invoke the Holy Spirit if it is by the calling of that same Holy Spirit in your hearts. The Spirit is calling the Spirit. not us.
    Every virgin was rejected except Esther. Esther was received into the kings presence because she looked nice? NO. Because she wore - cloaked herself in what the Eunich told her to. The Eunich represented the King. He was the representative of the King. he had the key to the kings heart. Eunich tol Esther to wearh "this". She did. It wan't her beauty that got her into the ings presence. it was her authority by issuance of the EUnich. She bid the King to come (invited the king) to come to supper twice. The king came where she asked him to. Why? Because she was in submission to his Authority and wanted his presence (spirit) with her.

    Whet you are probably opposed to ( i assume) is the gift of the Holy spirit manifesting in a vibrant way. If that is the case say so. But it's not correct and it's not Godly.

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    1. That's not what he said. Study the word. Paul nor others prayed TO the holy spirit.

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  26. Also, i might add. We do have the Holy Spirit in us when we are saved. At that time few of us move completely in the Spirit. The disciples believed but they were told to wait until the baptism of the Spirit. Let's face it. The spirit may live in us but we sure do enough to quench it. we doubt, excercise fear, anger. There's alot of these poisons in the church. We also are starting on the path of sanctification. We are at the start - the most corrupt part. Not the end. We are self centered and trying to submit those areas to God. We might be filled just as a 2 year old can walk but yet does so very imperfectly. It's not the Spirit's limitation, It's our limitation as we start the journey of untangling ourselves from our old nature. We ae Authorities over our kingdoms - finances, social, educational etc. Our workplace, our family etc. we eventually turn many or all over to God. When we realize that we want to relenquish control we have to give control over to someone else - the Father. we cry out come holy Spoirit fill us. Take control. That's not a bad thing. Thats a good thing. Evenin our worship the carnal (Michael) hates the Spirital (David). When David danced Michael was angry just as many of us get. "that's not natural to raise hands and meditate on the holy Spirit and sing this song over and over" YOUR RIGHT! It's a Holy Spirit thing. He doesn't force you to do it, but many are like David and realize this is the ONLY way to do it!!!. Don't rob The Davids of their unbridled dance and Spiritual meditative worship as they are surrounded by the Spirit's presence and have "entered in" and we shoudn't complain about your choice to be traditional.

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    1. Amen to all of the above.... Jesus went to the father for a reason.... And sent the Holy Spirit for a reason... Too many people are afraid and apprehensive of the manifestation of the spirit and what that looks like in their churches.... men filled with, the Holy Spirit preached in boldness. How do you think that locked?

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  28. There is absolutely nothing wrong with inviting the Holy Spirit. The manifestation and expectation that cause us to invite the Spirit is different from the indwelling presence we have individually and His omnipresence universally. The problem with teachers from the West is that we depend so much on intellectual rationality of a practice. That may stop us from making errors because we restrict our knowledge to what can be traced in the Bible. but it can also hinder our spiritual experience because the scriptures are only the written Words of God. There's so much we learn through walking with the Spirit. I won't say too much because I know we all mean well.

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    1. "We restrict our knowledge to what can be traced in the Bible."

      This is a great endorsement! Thank you

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    2. Exactly! I think rebels don't want to adhere to scripture but do whatever bethel does. Which is creepy in ways. If you listen to the 2 part interview called "defecting from bethel"

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  29. I believe your comments are divisive and harmful to the body of Christ. Jesus said "He that is not against us is on our part." (for us). Luke 5:17 also speaks about "the power of the Lord was present to heal them." The song you take issue with talks very much about God's presence. It was DOTTIE RAMBO, named gospel songwriter of the 20th century, who first termed this phrase in her song "Holy Spirit, Thou Art Welcome In This Place." She wrote this song in the Soviet Union as she prayed and talked to the Lord about the gospel not being welcome in Russia at the time. When she wrote that song, she was actually speaking of the Holy Spirit being welcome to live in her heart.

    You possibly lack some spiritual understanding about the fact God is ONE, not two, not three. There is only ONE God and scripture emphasized that point repeatedly throughout and indeed Israel was chosen by God (Yahweh) to carry that message to the world. "God IS a Spirit and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4) You talked about the Holy Spirit being a person. Yes, he is a person in the sense that he is the presence of God and the promised comforter. But NOTHING at all in scripture speaks about THREE PERSONS making up the ONE God. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh as the Bible states and the Holy Spirit is the presence of God going out from BOTH the Father and the Son. We might describe God has being manifest through the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but the doctrine of the trinity (THREE PERSONS) making up ONE God is man-made.

    You have taken a very LEGALISTIC stand in your interpretation and I DISCERNED (yes, that is a gift of the Holy Spirit) when I first started reading your article that you are a non-Charismatic, non-pentecostal believer with an axe to grind about persons who believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit which the book of Acts talks so much about. I don't judge you about your walk with Christ, but I also believe you should not be judging other sincere Christians who have a different understanding on the way they worship than you do. God bless!

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    1. You're not a Trinitarian. You're a heretic. I hope you come to an understanding of the truth and find a good church as soon as possible.

      The Lord bless you.

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    2. Exactly. he says he's not judging you but that's exactly what he's doing.lol

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    3. Wow, Jeremy, even that you're comebacks have come to a place of unkind and judging mental is very discouraging and sad. LEGALISM IS SWALLOWING UP LEADERS IN OUR CHURCHES

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  30. I agree completely to what Jeremy said people lack discernment of the scriptures, Pray to God that if you need the gift of discernment, I'm sure God will give that to you, it's simple. The Spirit of God which is Holy Spirit himself will teach you in all truth.

    Do not follow stage Worship leaders,read God's word, if you don't understand ask God that's where we learn patience and rely on Him to teach.

    Do not follow the Pentecostal and Charismatic denominational,New Age teachings, they are heresies.

    If you want still more clear read How Jesus and his disciples lead a simple life. They didn't do anything extra or over.Their lives were simple and glorifying God.

    These Pentecostal abd Charismatics try to overtake God and His word and they fall very soon and people who believe in their teachings too fall.

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  31. There is no trinity and you are ignorant of theological truth.

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  32. It is (only in my opinion) right to test and reprove error as you have done Jeremy. Thats it really. My concern is that this kind of thing has become normal in most fellowships nowadays. The question I have, or concern if you like, is how people go on with God after the bubble is burst so to speak.

    If we have been wrongly convinced that God is found only really and in fullest measure in these kind of charismatic meetings on the video and so on, there needs to be some testimony of how Christian people have proved the reality of God outside of these groups.

    In my opinion there has to be some kind of personal resposibility to unlearn and admit the phycological impact of some charismatic fellowships. There is a lot to walk away from, relationships and ties that have implications in ones personal life. It is a bit like an addiction recovery programe really. There are similariites to learning to live with out certain mood changing behaviours, that are not healthy or actaully biblical.

    There has to be some kind of exit programme to encourage and support those who are disenchanted to know that God is still knowable and real outside of some of these movements. I have found a way myself, but it has taken time and it also takes courage to stand against the tide of it all. I am encouraged to see how so many of the comments recognise the truth that the Holy Spirit already dwells in us, from conversion. I am currently doing studies on Romans with a Christian community I belong to. We are now at Romans 8. The liberating thing about this, is that Paul bases all his exposition on the assumption that we have the Spirit in us with no qualificaction apart from being justified by faith. There is no elaboration or hidden bolt on phrases that indicate we need to receive Him all over again later on in our Christian life. No more that once you get married, at some later date you have to get married again. The person of the Spirit comes to us, and that really is that. We get to know more of Him but that is in Gods sovereignty and Gods way with us as we go on in our walk with him.

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  33. As in most current discussions, this response thread has polarized into black and white, extreme camps. Scripturally, we can see the presence and understand the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of every true follower of Christ. So invoking the presence of the holy spirit, "ushering in" the holy spirit, "filling the atmosphere with the Holy spirit", etc. are just language that promotes bad theology. However, submitting to the holy spirit, giving control to the Lord through the HS, confessing and releasing our thoughts and actions to the HS, these are all actions we can and should do individually. The invitation should not be to the HS, but to the followers of Christ to give it control.

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  34. thank you for this article. I have never been able to put my finger on it but it always seemed illogical to invite the Holy Spirit to a church service since he is already in me.

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  35. Jeremy, those "babblings" are quite Biblical. If you're not Spirit-Filled, I understand your lack of comprehension. Of course, Pentecost is a continuous affair, as you repent and are baptised, you will be filled with the Holy Spirit. I don't see anything wrong with continuously submitting one's self to the authority of the Holy Spirit for correction, help, direction, wisdom, encouragement? He is a Person, and deserves the honour of recognition, and first place at the table of fellowship. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be poured out on all flesh...not like a soup, but as occupant of our souls, lives, bodies. A declaration by our "flesh" through our emotions and souls to invite the Holy Spirit to take full control is in order in my experience because I am giving Him the places I have withheld or which have been pilfered by the opposing will. That woman you don't recognise is Kim, she has a name and a history of walking with the Lord, the Holy Spirit equipping her to sing, when she didn't have a purpose in life. She knows His voice, as does Brooke Fraser-Lagerfeld of Hillsong, a New Zealander. Perhaps Jeremy you could ask the Holy Spirit for His view? He is after all God Emmanuelle...with us.

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    1. Well put and in truth with love!!!

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  36. John 14:16 says “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,”. This clearly says 2 things: Jesus asks the Father to send the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will be with you forever. So it makes no sense that we would ask the Holy Spirit to come into the church, let alone ask repeatedly. Is God not sufficient to do what he said he would do?

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  37. When the Holy Spirit is seen more as someone who will bring an experience rather than a greater understanding of the Scripture, we've got a problem.

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  38. I totally agree with what you said. Since the Toronto and Brownsville, Lakeland and Pineapple revivals etc the manifestations of Holy Spirit has shaped people understanding of what a move of the Holy Spirit should look like. It’s not the biblical Holy Spirit but a counterfeit of deceiving spirit which has come in through the word of faith movement and the New Reformation movement. The word of God has fallen by the way side to experience. Really bad

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    1. Totally agree. As a result, many "Christians" are biblically illiterate because it's more appealing to seek a mystical and spontaneous "worship" experience versus opening up the Word of God and reading it. I would argue that reading God's Word and believing that it is sufficient, inerrant, and authoritative for one's life is one of the greatest acts of worship. May we put to death our carnal instinct of consumerism and self-gratification, and submit to what is holy, good, and pleasing to our Lord. To God be the glory, not us.

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  39. “Did you notice that the one song goes on for 12 minutes? Okay, that's just a pet peeve.” Your pet peeve is that people are worshiping Jesus? Interesting.

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  40. “The desire isn't for that of a life of progressive sanctification or for good conversations that morning full of wisdom or for humble attitudes -- all of which are truly supernatural.” Sounds like you know what they desire, ha? Interesting.

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  41. I have often wondered why we welcome the Holy Spirit into the church service or a meeting full of believers when He is already there living inside of us? I understand that we are asking for His presence to manifest, but I also find it unbiblical, illogical, and mystical.

    Recently I heard a song called "Welcome Holy Spirit" and the fourth line says, "Live inside of me." This somehow seems like even worse theology. As if a Christian doesn't have the Holy Spirit or has lost Him? Why would a believer ever need to sing those words?

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    1. Beautiful question I had a similar one and I actually have played piano and sang this song for several years at church. Lyrics are very important and we have to be careful what we allow to be sung in church because some songs believe it or not can deceive and its a simple crafty trick of the enemy who stole music from God thus leading millions astray just by repetitious words and perverted it into the secular world. Probably didn't need to say all that. This is my take on your question. God created us with a choice so we have a choice to accept or deny him and his control in our lives. Jesus said that there would be a comforter and that is the Holy Spirit we accept Jesus into our heart and then we start our relationship with him. So yes Jesus has saved us and the Holy Spirit lives in us. So with a choice we can walk away anytime and God gave us that choice. So when we are worshiping and singing we are saying in this particular song Jesus take complete control of my life I may have not been totally like you this week maybe you got mad at a coworker and did not show the love of Jesus but fence me in I don't want the devil or anything to talk me out of my relationship I want your complete control and headship in my life. We are making the devil mad and in spiritual realms it pushes him back because he will fight us until the day we die "Your the living water" "Never ending fountain" is confirming we know who He is and who we are thirsty we need another drink and all of that pushes back opposing forces. Again this is just how I feel and what Ive saw in services before.

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  42. Christian worship should look different from the pagans. We don't need to arouse/beguile the Holy Spirt to come because He already lives in us. Let's not be like the priests of Baal on Mt. Carmel and work ourselves into a frenzy so as to entice and encounter our gods. Also, let's not confuse a manufactured performance filled with chord progression and a perfectly timed melodic climax as an encounter with God. It's mystical, therefore it's pagan, therefore, it's not of God, therefore, it's satanic. We need to be alert and sober minded while worshipping, not intoxicated, otherwise Satan will devour us. 1 Peter 5:8.

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  43. I dunno. What you are talking about probably has to do with the new age spiritism movement going on. They pretty much removed the holy ghost and God's name from newer versions of the bible. It's probably having a strange impact on believers and the church. It actually can put you in a messed up hypnotic meditative trance. The KJV makes a distinction between holy ghost and holy spirit. But they are connected and this is a touchy subject as you are not supposed to grieve the spirit and speaking against the holy ghost is unforgivable. Once I attended one of those supposively spirit filled churches. They were speaking unknown tongues that sounded kind of evil and one of them came up to me and said Jehovah is Satan. I would say that in these lasts days we are certainly in conflict with evil powers in higher places.

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    1. The new age spiritism movement may also have something to do with the feminist movement

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    2. Can you provide a list of songs deemed acceptable in worship?

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  44. Hi Jeremy, thank you for your interesting article.
    I have a question, based on this quote from your article:
    “When man is the one inviting God to do something, he is putting himself in a position of authority and action. God is in subjection and passive. Not good.”
    1. I agree that God is omnipresent by His Holy Spirit. My individual understanding is that the desire, in praying to the Holy Spirit, is that He make manifest, in us and/or in our midst, His presence.
    Do you think there can be negative results of asking the Holy Spirit to do something? (In this context, to manifest His presence).
    2. How does your quote, above, relate to prayer? For example, where we intercede for others and ask God to help them?
    God bless!
    Tim

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    1. Correction to my post: It's two questions! :-)

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  45. I agree that there is no Scripture that justifies praying to or summoning the Holy Spirit, who, as some have already pointed out, dwells within as many as have received Him. May I point out that there is also no Scriptural justification to calling the Bible the Word of God as Scripture clearly points out that this is the name of our Lord Jesus Jn 1:1, Heb 4:12, Rev 19:13

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  46. I’ve read your post twice this week. I can understand where you’re coming from. We need to be vigilant in spotting false prophets. However; I can also see the danger in bashing other denominations because they do not agree on all matters of Christianity. It’s not my job to convince anyone of anything. Rather, I am continuously reminded of what Paul said in Galatians. So I’m feeling led to leave it here.

    Galatians 5:13-26

    13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

    16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

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  47. Charismatics believe they have being doing three steps to solve the algebraic equation but in reality the equation has already been solved and all we have to do is know it ! Okay I think I get it now ! Lol yes thank you Holy Spirit ! Oops I mean Jesus ! Oops I mean Father in Jesus name , if You want to be thanked that is ..

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  48. Satan and his evil spirits deceive through EMOTIONS, DOUBTS, LACK of FAITH, and/or knowledge of the TRUTH. That is why it's so important to put on our Spiritual Armor. We are to KNOW we have salvation (helmet) by knowing the TRUTH (the belt) --learned in the Word--which fastens our RIGHTEOUSNESS (chestplate)-- learned in the Word-- being protected from spiritual attack and deception by having FAITH in Christ (shield), --who is made known in the Word--
    and destroying our enemies by the GODHEAD (sword) in us, --who is ONLY FOUND IN THE WORD.
    So if people claim they are "worshipping " who they claim is "Jesus" based on their emotions, then it can clearly be discerned they are ignorant of the Word, which is Truth, which is Christ. Therefore they cannot be truly saved because they are worshipping in ignorance and deception, not the real Jesus Christ.

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  49. You Will answer to god for what you say and do the father and son and the holy spirit ! The holy is welcome in my life and in my church! You are doing the devils work !! And you will be in hell for it ! Repent for you sins

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    1. Jesus Christ! Be you ever present in the minds and mouths of your people and may you never damn a believer to hell. Because some of these ugly condemning words coming from humans who think they have the power to send someone, or even the devil back to hell are laughable so please Jesus put the devil in his place, please keep us from sin and please for the love of all things Godly and true let your people actually READ the word instead of trying to throw ugly nasty condemning words at people who are clearly trying to know you better even when they may be mistaken.

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  50. There is a difference between the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and the manifest presence of the Holy Spirit.

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  51. https://www.mnsdistrict.org/engaged-in-mission/2023/4/20/talking-points-with-pastor-lucas-the-church-goes-first-by-word-and-spirit

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  52. All comments lend to the difference between the truth if the Word of God and the different degrees of error an we must ask for wisdom and knowledge and understanding. It's good to share our differences. The Word does say we should ask, even though God already knows what we have need of. So just ask. Our connection with the Alpha and Omega is in relationship and relationship is a two way conversation. Do you reprimand your child for getting excited, jumping up and down out of emotion at the prospect of getting a gift? How much more should we be excited in our praise and Worship of our God,? Is He looking for our perfect presentations according to man or our love for Him. And don't you know Satan mimics God? God's people worship out of love ... Satanic worship mimics what God's people do, not the other way around. We should love and worship like no one is watching except for God himself. Should we be correcting by our individual thoughts or should we be obedient and love Him with everything that is in us and love our neighbor AS we love ourselves. Jesus is coming back for a bride without Spot or Wrinkle do we collectively fit that description?

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  53. Great points here brother. Why is it a pet peeve when songs go past 12 minutes? Long worship is amazing

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    1. That's a great question, I have a fellow friend, who also has a YouTube channel and there's three preaching from the uk, and he has this thing about keeping all his videos under 13 minutes. I mean he will actually abruptly stop speaking as soon as it reaches 12:59. It's strange.

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  54. Thank you Ruach Ha'Kodesh! For guiding me into all truth and the things that are yet to come. This is such an important article, because if we are truly born again, then we are sealed with the Holy spirit, and we will know when we have the ,. Holy Spirit into the true believer. And we won't have to ask ourselves, because if we have to ask ourselves, then chances are that the Holy Spirit does not dwell inside of us. Because we all know that want to receive the beautiful spirit of Truth, there occurs a radical change in our lives. The only time the holy spirit came upon certain people was in the old testament. The Almighty God chose who the Ruah Ha'Qodesh would land upon and subsequently leave. Then on Pentecost , the Holy Spirit was given freely to all those who believed in the good news of salvation And once they were justified, or declared not guilty, in the eyes of the Holy one of Israel, only then would God put His Holy Spirit, which is a very powerful THING, into the that person's soul. And yes, your sealed with him until the day of redemption that truly draws nigh. And he who started a good WORK IN YOU, WILL SEE IT TO COMPLETION on that day of Christ Jesus (which is rapidly approaching) The indwelling christ, or the holy spirit, is what sanctifies us, and makes us more and more into the image of Our Savior Jesus christ.. I just heard it again on a very popular mega church in california, who has a very good pastor, but in the end he's praying to ask the Holy Spirit to come upon the people in the church, and I'm thinking to myself, are you serious? This leads me to believe and to think, how many are truly born again? Only God knows that answer. Only God knows our hearts. The one Yeshua is telling Nicodemus that you must be born again in order to see the kingdom of god, that means you must be born of the spirit of truth, the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead on the third day is the same spirit that should be dwelling inside the born again believer. Why would a pastor ask for this? Thank you for this article. Because he's at the door, we must self examine ourselves and really really think about this. Is it just believing with your mind in the bible, or is it a truly conversion of the heart, and when she takes that Heart of Stone out of you and replaces it with a heart of Flesh and he renews your mind. And it's not an instantaneous download, but rather a lifelong pursuit. But you will notice it right away. Some sins will drop off right away, some sins will take a little bit longer, and of course some sense we still struggle with this day, but the important thing is that you hate your sin with a passion. And that's not you, that's the holy spirit inside of you. Anyhow thanks for the article. If you ever want to do a live stream with me, since I have a YouTube channel with over 1,650 subscribers, out to the glory of god, has nothing to do with me, please contact me. I would love to speak to you and do a YouTube live stream. My email is in the bio description of my YouTube channel link that I provided. The grace of God our father, the Peace of our Adonai and Savior Jesus Christ and The Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and yours. Amen.

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  55. I am sorry, but you use your own "argument from silence" as part of your reasoning. "In Scripture, no person ever prays to the Holy Spirit. Bible readers find many examples of people praying, along with imperatives and instructions concerning prayer; however, never is there found any evidence that praying to the Spirit is good and right." Therefore, according to your argument, it is wrong and (at least potentially) bad. But this is as much an AFS as you argue against. It should suffice to say that there is no evidence either way, in the Bible, for or against praying to the Holy Spirit.
    I could also argue that praying "in the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:18) would include praying TO the Spirit, since - if I am in communion with the Spirit - I must naturally communicate TO the Spirit.
    Finally, I agree that we need not invite the Spirit into a place He should already be. It seems foolish and unnecessary. Though I will say that sometimes I ask Him to present himself in a greater way, or (trying to be clear) to penetrate the distractions and help me see Him more clearly. I know He is there, but I desire to see Him more clearly.
    I get most of where you are going. But we can get a bit too pedantic at times in our efforts to be "biblical." It can look like we are straining at gnats. Thanks for your attention if you read this far.

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  56. The problem is that; some of you the language you are using is abusive (pagan language) and yet you want a reader believe what you believe. It's not sin to ask the holy spirit or to acknowledge him . In the bible you will not find the word TRINITY, it's the believers who came up on this word in order to make it easy for people to understand how the deity are one. My submission is that none here shall be punished because he/she was calling on the holy spirit or not. Let's admit that we know in part according to what the word of God says.

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  57. well this good since we will be able to dig out more from the word, and again we shall also be able to pray for wisdom, what I believe is that when we get saved we receive indwelling spirit. where we should continue praying to be filled with the Holy Spirit. although Jesus had anointed the disciples to cast out devils and heal the sick, and they had returned rejoicing that the devils were subject to His name, there was still no power to change from within, as evidenced by their abandonment of Jesus at the time of His crucifixion.
    In John 7: 38 & 39, Jesus described the Holy Spirit which the disciples would receive as rivers of living waters flowing out from them. I understand disciples had already had indwelling spirit but thy had to wait at Jerusalem as Jesus commanded them until they receive the gift the Father had promised that is the Holy Spirit. When they went to the upper room they prayed and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

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  58. Well it has now been several years since the original author first posted this thought 2017. I stumbled up on this post while doing a Google search trying to understand why people in most worship services in large varieties of churches commonly sway back and forth while singing and while standing during worship. This puzzles me and led me here. Is there some connection to the Holy Spirit moving during worship? Not sure why Google search thought there is a connection. I also now wonder if this original author still is of the same opinion after several years?

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